Colorado Shooting Survivor Forgives Gunman

O'Farrill speaks with reporters, July 26, 2012. Aaron Ontiveroz/Denver Post

Colorado shooting victim on James Holmes: ‘I forgive him with all my heart’
By Dylan Stableford, Yahoo! News | The Lookout – Thu, Jul 26, 2012

It would be understandable for the victims of the Colorado theater shooting and their families to want retribution.

But Pierce O'Farrill, a 28-year-old who was shot three times in the Aurora massacre, says he has forgiven James Holmes, the suspected shooter in last week's Aurora, Colo., massacre.

"Of course, I forgive him with all my heart," O'Farrill told reporters shortly before his release from the Univ. of Colorado Hospital on Wednesday. "When I saw him in his hearing, I felt nothing but sorrow for him--he's just a lost soul right now."

O'Farrill--a staffer at the Denver Rescue Mission, a Christian charity organization that helps "people at their physical and spiritual points of need, with the goal of returning them to society as productive, self-sufficient citizens"--told the Denver Post he would eventually like to meet Holmes.

"I want to see him sometime," O'Farrill, one of 58 people wounded in the shooting, said. "The first thing I want to say to him is 'I forgive you,' and the next is, 'Can I pray for you?'"

O'Farrill's compassion is in stark contrast to the brother of Jessica Ghawi, one of 12 people killed in Friday's "Dark Knight Rises" rampage.

Jordan Ghawi did not attend Holmes' first court appearance on Monday because he feared he might try to avenge his sister's death.

"I was afraid that I may try to get my hands on that man," Jordan Ghawi said in an interview with CNN outside the Arapahoe County District Court shortly after the hearing...

READ more at this original article entitled:
"Colorado shooting victim on James Holmes: ‘I forgive him with all my heart’"
here

Here is a selection of some of the comments that were under this yahoo article (See the Huff Post article for over 559 Comments by now!)

Tara • 13 days ago
Ok, a guy shot three times forgives the shooter, while Yahoo reported yesterday that a guy who was just present in the theater and not injured is suing the theater and the movie studio. What's wrong with this picture?

FUBAR • New York, New York • 13 days ago
Whether you agree or disagree with O'Farrill you have
to admit one thing...He does 'practice what he preaches.'

Henry1 day 20 hrs ago
...I say "Praise the Lord" for saving the lives of all the other people in the Theatre. Why should we dwell on the horrors that occurred that night. We need to forgive all people, not just those who come asking for forgiveness. God has already forgiven all people for the sins we have commited. Thats what Jesus did.

Chris • 13 days ago
Here is an example of a person that talks the talk and walks the walk....wishes for a speedy recovery

t10 days ago
ClassicSporty : I have no problem forgiving people when they are truly sorry for what they've done. That is not the case here. The man brutally shot and killed 70 people and from the looks of it is not sorry 1 lick. He hasn't earned forgiveness and doesn't deserve it in my book.

YouKidMe • 13 days ago
I understand this....hate eats you up from inside and poisons your life. It becomes all you think about and keeps one from moving on and healing. I also understand the desire for revenge. I have been there. The longer I hung on to the hate, more more slowly I recovered. But...it can take a long, long time to really forgive.

Macy Marun13 days ago
I don't forgive people because of a Bible telling me to. I forgive everyone who has wronged me because hate makes me feel so ugly inside and really just damages me. Once I let go of my hatred and started forgiving, I felt like the world's weight was finally off my shoulders. I no longer refer to myself as Atlas. I can understand why this man forgave Holmes, and I hope all the victims and families can do it to start healing faster, too.

Stenton23 • 13 days ago
Coming on the heels of that other victim, who hired a PR firm and a lawyer for his lawsuit, no less. For this man, I have such admiration! Would that I could find such grace in my heart. God bless him. Truly inspirational.

Sharon12 days ago
Mike, Of course we all care about the others killed and injured but this story was about one person forgiving another. Just because you forgive him for what he did to you doesn't mean you think he shouldn't be punished for his acts.

Anaheim, California • 13 days ago
Hate is easy in a situation like this... It takes strength to forgive.

Chief • 13 days ago
I'll give this young man credit.... he's a better man than I.

Fats • Los Angeles, California • 13 days ago
People who post that they are angry he has forgiven the shooter seem to not understand that he is not saying he would let him go free. You can forgive someone but they still have to pay for it .

Lola • 13 days ago
Forgiveness, in my opinion is necessary for some to move on in life. While he may forgive Holmes, he will never forget. Bless this man for being the man he is.

What Now • 13 days ago
I think Pierce O'Farrell is doing something very healthy by setting an intention to let go and let "God". He turned this over to a higher power. Hate is like an addiction that stirs your insides and eats you alive if you continue to feed into it. This doesn't mean that by forgiving Holmes I'd agree he should also go unpunished. I doubt that is what O'Farrell intends here either by saying what he did. What he's doing is not allowing Holmes to rent any more space in his head and poison his thoughts.
Alot of the servicmen who suffered PTSD after the Viet Nam war found it was a very healing experience for them to revisit Viet Nam when they were ready later in life and return to the same places and meet the same people they were in combat with.

Janet D • 13 days ago
Thinking and praying for you, Pierce O'Farrill. I hope everyone will learn from you. God bless you and your family.

JP • 13 days ago
Forgiveness is a very powerful soul healer. It will allow him to move on more quickly.

DL • 12 days ago
O'Farrell is doing what is in his heart, what works for him. That doesn't mean it's something other folks shot (or the families of those who were murdered) have to do as well. However, what I find the most scarey are those who demonize Holmes, who wish to torture him, for example. When you express those sentiments, without investigation (which hasn't happened yet) into the event and him as a person, you premeditatively call for the death (etc.) of another: in short, you perpetuate the violence. You continue to create a culture of violence. How does that help?

Mike Bloise • Washington, District of Columbia • 13 days ago
This victim is cool!......

O.G • Los Angeles, California • 13 days ago
Love this verse..."You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire."
Matthew 5:21-24

Sad • 9 days ago
Forgiveness is pretty difficult, I have to say. I think sometimes it is easier to forgive someone who hurts you than it is to forgive someone who hurts someone you love. I think for family members, that will not come easy, if at all.

Alexa • 13 days ago
The forgiveness Pierce speaks of is not about forgetting or condoning the actions of Holmes. It's about letting go of the anger, hatred, and vengeful thinking that can consume us and cause us to be like the person who caused those feelings in the first place. It can be very destructive. Pierce is experiencing the peace of God - which "transcends all understanding".
(Philippians 4:7)

Find another article "Colorado Shooting Survivor Forgives Alleged Gunman" also with many comments (559 last I looked!) GO here

UPDATE from Bill Pelke: Recent Events (Alaska, etc.)

photo credit to Dallas Observer -- story link below.

It has been super to be here with Rais, he is a great man.

Rais gave wonderful talk at the annual fish fry. He did a fantastic radio talk interview with show host Shannyn Moore, who is a friend of AADP and the Journey of Hope. Rais also did a live news interview with the local Fox TV station prior to the “Fry Fish Not People” event.

They picked him up at my house and took him to the salmon cook-off when he was finished. Rais also was a judge for the competition. A television crew came to the event and interviewed him along with Rich Curtner, chair of the NCADP and one of the main organizers of this event.

I have been moved to tears each time I hear him speak. It is so powerful.

Rais also spoke for Kathy’s toastmaster group. He showed a 5 minute film. Everyone made positive comments when it came time for criticism and discussion that always takes place at these events. My Kathy really likes him too.

I look forward to talking strategy for the next couple of days, including a possible trip to Homer, to me the most beautiful city in Alaska. The weather last night was a beautiful 74 degrees, about as warm as it ever gets here in Anchorage.

I have also become friends on facebook with Pierce O’Farrill who was shot and left for dead in Colorado. He has forgiven the killer, doesn’t want the dp for him. Strong Christian man, talking about forgiveness to glorify God.

In fact he is on CNN right now. (As Bill wrote this update)

( Perhaps readers will be able to access this event by going here )

Great story.

BILL

==================

Just one article Bill sent on Rais Bhuiyan here

I promise to get posted more of Bill's (and Rais') articles real soon!

Blogger, Connie

Photo of Dr. Rick Halperin and Rais Bhuiyan in Europe with the SMU/Reprieve project. The photo on top is also from the same trip and project when Rais was interviewed in England.

Bill Pelke, Rais Bhuiyan and the Alaska Fish Fry

Bryan Stevenson on Empathy

The Toll of Representing Those on Death Row Posted: July 24, 2012 Bryan Stevenson, Executive Director of Equal Justice Initiative in Alabama, recently delivered the keynote address at the 30th anniversary celebration of the Open Door Community in Atlanta. Mr. Stevenson discussed how defending those on death row often takes a personal toll on those engaged in this work, even to the point of feeling "broken." But, he added, "I’ve learned some very basic things, being a broken person. I’ve learned that each person is more than the worst thing they’ve ever done. I believe that if somebody tells a lie, they’re not just a liar; if somebody takes something, they’re not just a thief; even if somebody kills someone, they’re not just a killer. And because of this, I believe that we have this need, this mission, this calling, to embrace them and to recognize this 'something else.'” To read the full speech Go to deathpenaltyinfo.org

Updates on Meds Used in Executions

Execution Halted in Georgia due to Change of Meds
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/23/us-usa-execution-georgia-idUSBRE86M1F720120723 

British Docs Vote to end Use of Meds in Executions
http://www.reprieve.org.uk/press/2012_06_27_bma_votes_end_use_of_meds_executions/

UK Bans Export of Drugs to US for use in Executions
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/10/uk-ban-export-drug-us-executions

Reuters Report: Murders & Firearms in Britain and the US

from Juan Cole: Informed Comment  posted on Reader Supported News on 22 July 12

http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/335-156/12554-58-murders-a-year-by-firearms-in-britain-8775-in-us 

umber of Murders, United States, 2010: 12,996

Number of Murders by Firearms, US, 2010: 8,775

Number of Murders, Britain, 2011*: 638
(Since Britain's population is 1/5 that of US, this is equivalent to 3,095 US murders)

Number of Murders by firearms, Britain, 2011*: 58
(equivalent to 290 US murders)

Number of Murders by crossbow in Britain, 2011*: 2
(equivalent to 10 US murders).

For more on murder by firearms in Britain, see the BBC.

The international comparisons show conclusively that fewer gun owners per capita produce not only fewer murders by firearm, but fewer murders per capita overall. In the case of Britain, firearms murders are 30 times fewer than in the US per capita.

Do hunters really need semi-automatic AR-15 assault weapons? Is that how they roll in deer season? The US public doesn’t think so.

* British crime statistics are September to September, so 2011 is actually 2010-2011.

The photo above is from Op Ed at Denver Post:
 http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_21129630/after-dark-knight-tragedy-keep-going-movies

Denver Tragedy from a Muslim cab-driver Perspective

http://dawn.com/2012/07/21/fears-on-the-first-ramazan-night/

Denver Tragedy URL to videos

http://www.facebook.com/48hours  I am not a FB user but here are some leads for more discussion
on this horrific event -- including a reference to forgiveness from one of the surviving victims...comments are also interesting and diverse.

The Denver Shooting: The More Op Ed

Did You Hear About the Shooting?  

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By Russ Baker (about the author)

This article cross-posted from WhoWhatWhy


One of the most striking things about shooting incidents in America...is how common they are. Another striking thing is how often the media fails to note the previous point, or to explore what that means -- or what might be done about it.

Late last night, a gunman walked into a movie theater in a Denver suburb, killed 12 and injured 50. Two days earlier a gunman opened fire outside a bar in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, in an incident in which at least 17 were hurt. These were not really so exceptional. Every year, about 100,000 Americans are victims of gun violence, and every week, people calmly enter our schools, our workplaces, our leisure gathering spots and open fire on innocent bystanders.

Whenever we tweet or post about these, often the only people we hear from are those who say we need more guns not less. "If I had been there with my gun..." The problem, of course, is the public at large is being asked to arm everyone and trust that, while the rest of us cower, "the right people" will quickly dispatch "the wrong people" in the modern equivalent of the Shootout at the OK Corral. No mention of whether the teacher is supposed to be armed...when a nut walks into a preschool and starts firing away.

Meanwhile, the media doesn't have any answers at all. Each time such an incident occurs, they primarily evince a morbid interest in the grotesque details of the incident and the psycho of the day. In this case, early indications were that the suspect in custody, James Holmes, said to be a dropout from a medical school, had some kind of imagined association with the film being shown, the Batman movie "The Dark Knight Rises."


And what is our response to all this? We were told that the president was awakened at 5:25am by his counter-terrorism adviser. He then issued the following statement:

"As we do when confronted by moments of darkness and challenge, we must now come together as one American family. All of us must have the people of Aurora in our thoughts and prayers as they confront the loss of family, friends and neighbors, and we must stand together with them in the challenging hours and days to come."

Later, in a press conference, he said: "Such violence, such evil is senseless."
Romney, in a statement, said:

"Ann and I are deeply saddened by the news of the senseless violence that took the lives of 15 people in Colorado and injured dozens more. We are praying for the families and loved ones of the victims during this time of deep shock and immense grief.  We expect that the person responsible for this terrible crime will be quickly brought to justice."

That's about the sum total of leadership these days. Avoid the core issue, pray, and extend sympathies to the families of the victims. No mention of systemic and endemic factors, or of taking action to prevent this kind of tragedy in the future.

A Brutal Culture Begets Violence
In the case of the Tuscaloosa shooter, we had some useful particulars. But sadly, this kind of actionable information is just too "big picture" for us to contemplate:

"There were signs Wilkins' life was unraveling.

"He divorced from his wife of 16 years around 2005 and a credit union last year tried to garnish wages at his then-employer, Capstone Oilfield Services, to collect a more than $15,000 debt but couldn't because he had declared bankruptcy. And the co-owner of the FedEx store where Wilkins turned himself in said Wilkins talked about being high on drugs during the shootings."

From that, we can see that Wilkins was experiencing stresses and crises. And at least some of them are related to the economic difficulties most of us are facing. And those are caused, at least in some cases, by greed and relentless pressure for profits, irrespective of the harm to others. That is, stresses are not all our fault. The ruthless bottom-line priorities of our society and the lack of protections for consumers and workers are factors in people becoming alienated and enraged. (We wrote a bit about regulating financial excesses the other day -- you can read that here.)

Gun violence is also due, in part, to the power of gun manufacturers -- which constitute way too big an industry altogether. While it's surprisingly hard to find accurate totals on firearms production, which in itself is troubling, according to a gun manufacturers' association, even a decade ago American firms were pumping out more than 3 million combined rifles, shotguns, revolvers and pistols in a single year. And those numbers have been climbing.

That's a mind-boggling figure. Indeed, we live in a country where firepower, both that held by individuals and by the state, is, frankly, pretty deranged. No other country on earth so bristles with means of killing -- and no other country thinks it is quite so healthy an entertainment for us and our children to sit at a console for hours and try to "kill" other people--including civilians.No other country thinks it is moral behavior to use pilotless drones to kill -- in large part -- people whose only crime is that they're young men of military age.  1  |  2

Author, investigative journalist, editor-in-chief at WhoWhatWhy.com

BILL MOYERS on the National Rifle Association (NRA)

"the NRA is the enabler of death - paranoid, delusional, and as venomous as a scorpion. With the weak-kneed acquiescence of our politicians, the National Rifle Association has turned the Second Amendment of the Constitution into a cruel hoax, a cruel and deadly hoax."

The NRA's Dark Gun Culture

Reader Supported News

By Bill Moyers, Moyers & Company

21 July 12

ou might think Wayne LaPierre, Executive Vice President of and spokesman for the mighty American gun lobby, The National Rifle Association, has an almost cosmic sense of timing. In 2007, at the NRA’s annual convention in St. Louis, he warned the crowd that, "Today, there is not one firearm owner whose freedom is secure."

Two days later, a young man opened fire on the campus of Virginia Tech, killing 32 students, staff and teachers. Just last week LaPierre showed up at the United Nations Conference on the Arms Trade Treaty here in New York and spoke out against what he called "Anti-freedom policies that disregard American citizens' right to self-defense."

Now at least 12 are dead in Aurora, Colorado, gunned down by a mad man at a showing of the new Batman movie filled with make-believe violence. One of the guns the shooter used was an AK-47-type assault weapon that was banned in 1994. The National Rifle Association saw to it that the ban expired in 2004. The NRA is the best friend a killer's instinct ever had.

Obviously, LaPierre's timing isn’t cosmic, just coincidental; as Shakespeare famously wrote, "The fault is not in our stars, but in ourselves." In other words, people. People with guns. There are an estimated 300 million guns in the United States, one in four adult Americans owns at least one and most of them are men. The British newspaper The Guardian, reminds us that over the last 30 years, "The number of states with a law that automatically approves licenses to carry concealed weapons provided an applicant clears a criminal background check has risen from eight to 38."

Every year there are 30,000 gun deaths and 300,000 gun-related assaults in the U.S. Firearm violence may cost our country as much as $100 billion a year. Toys are regulated with greater care and safety concerns.

So why do we always act so surprised? Violence is alter ego, wired into our Stone Age brains, so intrinsic its toxic eruptions no longer shock, except momentarily when we hear of a mass shooting like this latest in Colorado. But this, too, will pass and the nation of the short attention span quickly finds the next thing to divert us from the hard realities of America in 2012.

We are after all a country which began with the forced subjugation into slavery of millions of Africans and the reliance on arms against Native Americans for its Westward expansion. In truth, more settlers traveling the Oregon Trail died from accidental, self-inflicted gunshots wounds than Indian attacks - we were not only bloodthirsty but also inept.

Nonetheless, we have become so gun loving, so blasé about home-grown violence that in my lifetime alone, far more Americans have been casualties of domestic gunfire than have died in all our wars combined. In Arizona last year, just days after the Gabby Giffords shooting, sales of the weapon used in the slaughter - a 9 millimeter Glock semi-automatic pistol - doubled.

We are fooling ourselves. That the law could allow even an inflamed lunatic to easily acquire murderous weapons and not expect murderous consequences. Fooling ourselves that the second amendment’s guarantee of a "well-regulated militia" be construed as a God-given right to purchase and own just about any weapon of destruction you like. That's a license for murder and mayhem and it's a great fraud that has entered our history.

There's a video of which I'd like to remind you. You can see it on YouTube. In it, Adam Gadahn, an American born member of al Qaeda, the first U.S. citizen charged with treason since 1952, urges terrorists to carry out attacks on the United States. Right before your eyes he says: "America is absolutely awash with easily obtainable firearms. You can go down to a gun show at the local convention center and come away with a fully automatic assault rifle, without a background check, and most likely, without having to show an identification card. So what are you waiting for?"

The killer in Colorado waited only for an opportunity, and there you have it - the arsenal of democracy transformed into the arsenal of death and the NRA - the NRA is the enabler of death - paranoid, delusional, and as venomous as a scorpion. With the weak-kneed acquiescence of our politicians, the National Rifle Association has turned the Second Amendment of the Constitution into a cruel hoax, a cruel and deadly hoax.

Find VIDEO and more on Reader Supported News  here

 
(Blogger's note from Journey Blog: I'm leaving some select comments from Readers Supported Media (RSN)

+13 # ronnewmexico 2012-07-21 08:56

Assault weaponry have no place in america.....as do extended capacity clips..but

the flip side of this is invariably on this thread will come response stating....all guns everywhere must be disallowed...which is unrealistic considering some rural environments and professions(cat tle or sheep ranching for instance)....

So the NRA uses that...to support this....assault weaponry...any abridgement on a right to own a gun leads to outlawing all guns...which is a completely irresponsible position in some circumstances.

so they have support in rural communities....because in a sense the opposition to the NRA is so fervent in their ideology.

I don't like to blame the victim...but that is the situation in this national discussion.

The baby is thrown out with the bathwater..in the interest of urban safety the rural experience is discounted and rendered extreme is the position of gun control..when really it is not....

Even rural peoples singularly considered know...assault rifles with extended capacity clips...have not a place in america. Mix that with no guns at all and you get...support for no restrictions on gun ownership.

+27 # Barbara K 2012-07-21 09:35

Too many people don't realize that the NRA is a political entity, and not needed to own guns. The NRA is there to raise money for the Republicans, and have been doing so for many years. People are gullible enough to send them hundreds of dollars of dues because they think they are making them safe. People don't need the NRA to be safe. I'll bet many of their "members" don't know where their money is going. NRA rakes in money all over the place to support the Republicans, that is why the Rs support every whim of the NRA.

+8 # WestWinds 2012-07-21 10:05

The Republican constituency take pride in their ignorance. They shovel millions to creeps like Pat Robertson, who entered the ministry with the lint in his pocket, but who now owns a diamond mine in the Congo. And what has he ever really done for them? Send them a prayer... wow, that's really worth millions. The Republican constituency are wrong-minded and wrong-headed but as Mike Papantonio says, "You'll never change them."

-3 # Glen 2012-07-21 10:14

I agree, Barbara. The NRA may be offensive but it is the individual that makes choices. The NRA does not make it for them. It is a national disgrace that citizens cannot seem to overcome societal and family breakdown. Education and gun training is utilized by only a few.

The flip side of it all is that the U.S. is producing, as I have said, psychotics, due to all manner of social ills and little parenting. Teachers have seen it coming for decades. How to overcome that?

Availability of guns would not be an issue if there weren't psychotics, angry unhappy individuals, and soon, very desperate people without jobs. Fear and anger are a deadly duo.

+4 # Billy Bob 2012-07-21 10:36

Why not give everyone their own tank? Why not an anti-aircraft gun?

+1 # DHa7763100 2012-07-21 10:46

good one

+4 # JSRaleigh 2012-07-21 10:21

Quoting

Too many people don't realize that the NRA is a political entity, and not needed to own guns. The NRA is there to raise money for the Republicans, ...

I believe you have the relationship reversed. The Republicans are captive to the NRA, who are there for the gun manufacturers who actually fund them.

+16 # macrhino 2012-07-21 09:43

Quoting

Assault weaponry have no place in america.....as do extended capacity clips..but

the flip side of this is invariably on this thread will come response stating....all guns everywhere must be disallowed...which is unrealistic considering some rural environments and professions(cat tle or sheep ranching for instance)....

Absolute nonsense. There is almost no one in the pro gun control community who is for a total ban on weapon ownership. It is almost unknown. I notice that no one in the comments are calling for total gun bans. This is a red herring and detracts from the real argument.

I grew up in the back woods. The rural argument is silly, again only the US has rural communities?

The problem is simply the easy access to guns. PERIOD.

-6 # WestWinds 2012-07-21 10:08

I don't know what you are talking about, "easy access of guns." I own three pistols and I had to go through gun courses, get finger printed in every state I have lived in, had to register them and pay fee after fee for them... You make it sound like you can pick guns off of trees. Nonsense!

+2 # Brooklyn Girl 2012-07-21 10:31

That's only because you chose to obey the law.

Many gun owners don't.

+3 # DHa7763100 2012-07-21 10:52

Well you can go to Arizona and buy any type of gun you want...walk out the door and sell it to somebody in the parking lot. That's were all this fast and furious crap come from. Arizona Prosecutors will not prosecute someone for selling guns to the cartel because it is LEGAL. An 18 yr old can buy 200 assult rifles, and because he owns them, he is FREE to sell to whomever he wants to without prosecution,

+2 # Billy Bob 2012-07-21 10:37

Why do you need three of them?

+1 # JTHinSD 2012-07-21 10:37

So, what, exactly, is "easy" access to guns? Do you have one? Have you gone through the steps to legally procure one?

-18 # WestWinds 2012-07-21 10:01

You don't take into account home invasions everywhere, especially for a certain class of people, the elderly. You have no idea what it is like to be old and at the mercy of every wiseacre sociopath that is running around with the blessings of the police. I favor the "Castle Law" and weapons are what makes the difference between having enough security in the house at night to sleep and NEVER being able to sleep knowing that your neighborhood home invader lives only a few streets down.

+5 # Brooklyn Girl 2012-07-21 10:32

Locks and window alarms work just fine.

Personally, I wouldn't trust an elderly person with a gun. I'm 62 and I can't see clearly without my glasses.

+2 # Billy Bob 2012-07-21 10:37

Statistically, you're more likely to kill yourself with your own weapon than you are likely to use it in self-defense.

...The NRA has done a fantastic job of scaring the Stupid People that their 2nd Amendment Rights are being taken away just because they can’t have magazines with 20, 30, 50 or 100 shells.

+3 # paulrevere 2012-07-21 08:57

Psychotropic drugs have been a factor in the majority of these mass murders...and the drug companies have actively surpressed the facts...as have the families because it reflects on them personally...Fort Hood, Columbine, Virginia, Arizona...just do a search for 'psychotropic drugs and mass murders'...for there is a ton of articles and studies making that point.

It ain't the guns, it those who use 'em!

+21 # SearchingfortruthSarah 2012-07-21 09:14

But what legitimate need is there for an assault weapon the fires so many bullets that it can kill 'en masse'? Besides war?

+5 # WestWinds 2012-07-21 10:14

Why does the US government need six thousand nuclear bombs when two will completely destroy the planet?
Answer:
Ask these bloody corporations when is enough enough?

+2 # SearchingfortruthSarah 2012-07-21 09:16

According to your premise "it aint the guns but those who use 'em" If those who use psychotropic drugs have such easy access, does that make easy access responsible?

+1 # paulrevere 2012-07-21 09:57

Can't argue assault weapons personally...

If those who use psychotropic drugs get so loosened emotionally that they see insanity and violence as their deal, then maybe those who use them should be more closely monitored by those who prescribe the drugs...ey?

You propose to take away a privilege/right of tens of millions while the 'drug inhibited' walk the streets?

How about a law that states that if a doctor prescribes a psychotropic, then they MUST meet with the patient once a week and monitor their behavior?

+1 # WestWinds 2012-07-21 10:15

The easiest access is a stolen weapon. No fees, no classes, no registration, no limits.

+1 # Billy Bob 2012-07-21 10:38

And with so many weapons available, it's pretty easy to steal them.

+3 # WestWinds 2012-07-21 10:12

Finally! Someone with some common sense! The bad guys will ALWAYS get guns, and penalizing a whole country of law-abiding citizens for the disturbed acts of a few is just as INSANE! Stop going after the low hanging fruit. If you really want to stop the gun attacks, ask what is motivating it... and you'll probably find that it is the insane way the adults are running this country and the behavior coming out of the kids is just a symptom of the insane adult behavior kids have to grow up with. Stop the wars, take care of the planet, pay people livable salaries, put in good health care. When the parents stop bouncing off of walls, so will the kids!!!

+1 # Billy Bob 2012-07-21 10:41

Do you think England has fewer bad guys than we do? Bad guys are EVERYWHERE. What makes you think we have more of them in the U.S.? With so many bad guys walking every corner of our planet why are so many of the bad guys able to commit murder in the U.S.? I would argue that it's much easier to murder someone with a gun than it is without one. It seems pretty obvious.

Unless you think England is a magical land of fairy princesses and unicorns where bad guys never tread...

 

-1 # WestWinds 2012-07-21 10:22

Asking about more effective gun control is closing the door after the horses have left the barn. The questions to be asking are:
Why are kids being attracted to this? Are the video games and all of the murder they watch on TV programming their brains? Do we glorify war with marching bands, medals, parades and ribbon stickers on our cars? Do we buy our kids toy guns for play? Who is raising out kids, parents or the TV? Is this country in such a state of fear and anxiety because of the clowns in Washington that this toxic atmosphere is affecting our kids? Are the kids witnessing massive amounts of for-profit dysfunction everywhere they look? Isn't their behavior a sign of adult dysfunction? Our kids aren't growing up with peace and love, they are growing up with hostile dysfunction and you wonder why they are going on shooting rampages??? Wake up!

+1 # Billy Bob 2012-07-21 10:43

They have video games everywhere in the world. Japan LOVES video games and ESPECIALLY the violent ones. Look at Japan's murder rate. Look at how many guns they have.

+1 # Billy Bob 2012-07-21 10:45

That's right. The community - not the individual. Regardless of what Scalia says, the 2nd Amendment isn't a license to buy a nuclear warhead and keep it in your garage.

+2 # paulrevere 2012-07-21 10:01

Not until the psychotropic drug users are differentiated as a 'must monitor on a short window during use' basis.

Do that research on the connection between psychotropics and mass murders...it sheds an entirely different perspective on the issue.

0 # paulrevere 2012-07-21 10:05

I agree about the 'tyranny' needing potential for personal defense, but ANY ref to open carry and all that testosterone paranoid delusion is out of the question.

The odds of anyone being struck by lightening or hit by a golf ball are about the same as anyone being around a psychotropic drug addled mass murderer.

All this knee-jerk about being safe is just a psycho-trick to keep Americans in fear...it's just not all that relevant in the true scheme of how life unfolds.

0 # paulrevere 2012-07-21 10:45

F.E.A.R. ='s False Evidence Appearing Real

+1 # Billy Bob 2012-07-21 10:49

Actually Colorado has some of the most lax laws in the country regarding concealed weapons. Maybe the other people were aware of the statistical likelyhood that you're more likely to kill yourself with a gun accidentally than be murdered by a stranger.

Ask my cousin who was a competitive shooter and had won several trophies. Oh that's right. You CAN'T ask him. He accidentally blew his head off in his garage after he tripped. That may sound cold, but it's the honest truth. We were close and I don't think he's offended by me mentioning the truth of what happened to him.

+4 # macrhino 2012-07-21 09:48

The "Psychotropic drugs" comment from paulrevere is even more nonsense. This is called "all the world is the US" argument. There are places with much easier access to Psychotropic drugs that do not have nearly the number of shootings of this type (Holland, Germany, Denmark). This is not to say it is unknown but it is very rare.

The it ain't the guns "argument" is a good indication of why we have these problems.

The logic error expressed here is better stated, “the inanimate object is not a significant part of the equation.” This is the "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument.

This argument is over-simplistic. The "human factor" in this "equation" is a constant, not a variable. If we want to change the outcome of the "equation" we have to change the variables.

Here is a thought experiment. Imagine 2 separate groups of ten men each. These groups both have an equal desire (human factor) to clear a large forest that is situated next to their respective villages. But only one group has access to chainsaws or power saws. The other group only has knives. Which group (of equal motivation) will be more successful at clearing the forest? CHAINSAWS DON'T CLEAR FORESTS, PEOPLE CLEAR FORESTS.

Guns are power tools for killing. They are enablers. The argument is, "How do we severely reduce killings?" One very effective way is to reduce access to these power tools for killing.